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Thread: coillte being sold off to the swiss!!

  1. #61
    ColinB Guest

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    Has anyone identified what is actually wrong with selling the forests ?

    Will the new owners have a different set of rules to work to ?

    Are they not governed by the same standards and laws as the current owner ?

    Is it possible that the management of the forests will actually improve ?

    Will anything change ?

    Does anyone know the answers to these questions ?

    I doubt Bertie does

  2. #62
    ColinB Guest

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    And it's being sold to the Swiss.... well they have lots of forests and they are well managed.

    Well they have bike parks and trails and alps....

    So....

  3. #63
    ColinB Guest

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    Or do we just not want forigners to own it..... well they own everything else....

  4. #64
    Billybobs Guest

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    .


    Insane rant to follow........ : )




    My issue with them is less about access to land (I own wire cutters) and more that we'll end up carbon trading with a Swiss Company so we don't end up paying Pollution fines to the Eu.

    Ie we will pay them back all the money they gave us for the forestry over time and it will
    in the long run cost us money to sell them the coillte forests.


    Basically the companies that own woodland list themselves on a stock exchange
    and companies and governments buy in to offset fines worked out in the kyoto agreement


    So "Our" trees have become of greater worth to us now as we the Irish people could just
    offset our carbon production against them which will make our economy a better and cheaper place to do business.

    Instead Fianna Fails beloved big business bertie the ****ing ***t ahern the man who doesn't seem to need a tax clearance cerificate has got his sticky little hands around Coilltes assets.






    End rant.

  5. #65
    Celticdavey Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinB View Post
    Has anyone identified what is actually wrong with selling the forests ?

    Will the new owners have a different set of rules to work to ?

    Are they not governed by the same standards and laws as the current owner ?

    Is it possible that the management of the forests will actually improve ?

    Will anything change ?

    Does anyone know the answers to these questions ?

    I doubt Bertie does
    I think the problem is that the plan is to sell off a national asset and ship the money abroad to service a banking debt that FF decided to put on the shoulders of us the Irish tax payer.

    The Plan seems to be to sell to a private Swiss company not Switzerland or the Swiss government. The chances are whoever buys will run it on the bases of max. profit min. cost.

    It is not realistic to think that bike parks or anything else will bring in comparable money to a similar set up in the Alps.

    Not to mention we will be putting a large percentage of public lands into private ownership.

    If we take the lost of OUR fishing rights or the Corrib gas fields not to mention the IMF deal as examples we can see that the Irish government don't have a great/ANY track record of negotiation deals for us don't forget WE OWN THE FORESTS! THIS OUR COUNTRY! WHY SHOULD WE LET POLITICIANS SELL IT OUT FROM UNDER US? TO PAY BANKERS DEBTS?

  6. #66
    Billybobs Guest

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    [QUOTE=ColinB;109822]Has anyone identified what is actually wrong with selling the forests ?

    Will the new owners have a different set of rules to work to ?

    Rule number one will be Maximize Profits

    Are they not governed by the same standards and laws as the current owner ?

    The "current owner" is you and me
    Hence it needs a government tender for to be sold.

    Big Business has your best interest at heart will live up to
    and fully comply will all the standards which Fianna Fail have laid out.


    Is it possible that the management of the forests will actually improve ?

    Managment strategy will depend on rule number one

    Will anything change ?

    Access may be denied as they won't be responsible for
    peoples safety that way.



    Does anyone know the answers to these questions ?

    Heres what Senator Shane Ross told me the other day when I asked him what is happening about coillte

    He told me he knew only what he had read in the papers about it
    He explained that he doesn't know everything that goes on as he's busy
    with campaigning and other issues.



    So actually Bertie is really probably the only man who knows whats happening.
    Last edited by Billybobs; 24-02-11 at 03:00 PM.

  7. #67
    ColinB Guest

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    Well..

    As this is a mountainbike forum, and we're concerned with access and maintaining a relationship with the forest managers, none of comments above bring me any closer to understanding the implications of the sale, from that point of view.


    I don't know the in's and out's of the carbon offset stuff.

    To be honest, I don't believe any of the comments above purely because it's all full of over-zelous opinions. If people refrained from using CAPSLOCK and BOLD to make a point poeple might listen.

    I don't work for this swiss crowd, just to be clear, I'm not in favour of selling chunks of Ireland but we can't actually do anything about it, people (forest owners) are free to sell and buy to whomever they please. We have laws for this stuff and they're not breaking them.

    So, I'll come back to my first question, what are the actual implications of the sale, not guessing or politically charged opinions, what will actually happen to our forests.

    In other words, is there a qualified person that can explain this to all of us.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    23,227

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    i'll second that Colin.
    Billybobs..who are you and where do you ride ? because thats the sh1t I like to know !

  9. #69
    Billybobs Guest

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    Hi Byrner

    Message received and understood I have been going off on one alright
    I can't help myself sometimes : )

    Hi Collin
    No offense was meant by the use of bold and I know "caps" are meant to be shouting in
    internet parlay and I personally try not to use them very often. But what i did use was bold and it was merely to delineate between a question and an answer.

    With regard to your very specific questions

    "what will actually happen to our forests."

    The Helvetia Wealth fund buys existing forests, or land which is then afforested
    The forest will remain forests they'll just change ownership from the Irish State to
    Helvetia Wealth AG company who've also expressed an interest in acquiring more Irish land over time..

    "Has anyone identified what is actually wrong with selling the forests ?"

    We may no longer have any rights to anything on their property as it will
    be private land from then on.

    "Are they not governed by the same standards and laws as the current owner ?"

    They are and will be governed by the same laws as the current owner (Current Owner being the Irish state) with regard to environmental protection and the protection of existing biodiversity

    "Is it possible that the management of the forests will actually improve ?"

    Management will improve but term improve is subjective as
    Key to Helvetia Wealths strategy is that it will acquire the title to all properties for the benefit and protection of its investors. So its unlikely that Helvetia Wealths primary concern caters for the public use of their forested land.

    Will anything change ?

    It will be up to Helvetia Wealth to decide what changes as quoted above
    " it will acquire the title to all properties" which is legal parlay for they'll own everything,
    water resources, fishing rights etc pretty much the land and everything on it.


    "Does anyone know the answers to these questions?"

    Well you answered this one yourself as Bertie knows all as he has become Chairman of the " International Forestry Fund" a wing of Helvetia Wealth but up until recently (The announcement of the Public Tender for the purchase of Coillte) bertie seemed to be
    denying that it was even on the the cards.

    Hopefully these answers have been a bit better, clearer and more mature.


    Quotes and information are taken from the listed below links,

    http://www.helvetia-wealth.com/files...ins_IFF(1).pdf

    http://www.helvetia-wealth.com/berti...y-fund,26.html

    http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news...try-job-probe/

    and last but not least

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO2AewmpAEs




    .
    Last edited by Billybobs; 24-02-11 at 07:27 PM.

  10. #70
    Celticdavey Guest

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    I take your point about this being a mountain bike forum,
    but I personally believe access is just one of the possible problems with this sale
    and as you may have noticed I have strong opinions on the matter.

    There has being no press release etc. from the government or the proposed buyer that I know off, so I don't think anybody knows how any sale may effect access.
    I would think that unless insurance, maintenances and other cost are particularly high
    we should have no problems with access.

    All my opinions for what they're worth.

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